advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting

Advantages of Inline CSS: You can easily and quickly insert CSS rules to an HTML page. The key issue is not to use tables for the layout of your site template. The limit isnt the language, its your current skill level in using the language. A 10 MS difference is meaningless. Load time is always going to be an issue. There is no format to follow for teaching the aesthetics of style most people, though, can- recognise something that follows a classical design. Theyre interested in your content. If I ever learn CSS completely, Ill use it more often as you cant fight progress but Ill never discount tables from the equation. For a complete newbie I would agree tables are easier to understand though tables do trip a lot of newbies up too. It will work equally as well, and only take seconds to accomplish. Menu. Neither is true. I dont understand why it would be easier to update content using CSS more so than tables. The algorithms used for ranking most often are content and inbound links. As we add more to the pages design the table complexity continues to increase compared to divs. The limiting factor isnt the language itself, its your current skill with the language. This post is framed the way it is, because its a reaction to posts framing the topic as html tables are better than css. To compare we really need to look at sites that are well developed on both sites. I believe many developers only read do not use tables, missing the later half of the sentence for layouts. I have used css and divs to create multiple lists for a table structure with four side by side columns. Top to bottom you seem to sum it up pretty well. If table tags were called tags, nobody would be complaining, and there would be no ongoing debate. That leads to easier maintenance, more freedom in design, and quicker load times. I learned through them. What css function does that? Good Article and a lot of gold in these comments. However. Newspapers have figured out this ideal layout a long time ago, and have thus named their writers columnists. 5. It could mean one less page they get to crawl on your site. Its huge. Other people would find it just as easy to code the same layout with css. I believe Whats best in a given scenario depends mostly on the skill set of the person doing the job. If you ever visited a page that showed nothing for a few seconds before everything suddenly appeared, that time was likely your browser making its first pass over the table structure behind the page. Consistency. The example below specifies a solid border for

, and	elements: The table above might seem small in some cases. Personally, if I could instantly convert a design into HTML, Id do it. I totally thought this debate was long dead, but hid a road block and was procrastinating so I thought I would google random stuff and found this. Having done programming I understand reusability of code and the ease of making changes in one place for large websites, but this is little good with small sites. Browser compatibility (some styles sheet are supported and some are not). You can respectfully disagree, but Im still going to say youre wrong. So if you feel strong emotions regarding CSS layout, dont respond. It doesnt once you know the one or two places where there could be an issue. Table cells cooperate very well with each other, the way everyone expects things works. Is there a way I can pay someone to turn this same homepage design into a total CSS design? I think not. It amazes me that some folks still use tables for layout in this day and age. How does it suggest we should use tables? Your probably right about round pegs and square holes, and I am sorry if you took offence, but the fact that countless people have these issues with css must indicate a lack of continuety with css. As you mentioned, pages built in tables have to load twice (something I didnt know until reading this post) add to this that the example you showed: clearly illustrates how much extra code is required for tables. bootstrap requires a container, row, and something equal to a td but I cant recall which. Thanks Emma. I wrote it to answer the question. For That would be a debate between using css or html attributes for presentation. Web designers needs to use few lines of programming for every page improving site speed. Its is also much quicker to use tables, and hey, yeah, once in a while it is nice to be able to glance at your code in a wysywig and actually see what it looks like. I am currently a consultant with an enormous company that forces us to support IE6. I avoid tables and table-cell in almost all layouts to avoid ridicule, but deep down I truly believe that anything else is convoluted and meant to create more jobs for web developers. CSS is better in both theory and practice. Creativity User preferences Multiple variants Personalized user experience Artificial intelligence design disadvantages Understand nuances Create original content Filter biases 3 best artificial intelligence design software UIzard LetsEnhance Fronty Conclusion Just for the entirety of your layout. Q&A for work. Eventually it works, but at what cost? We all came to web design in our own way and with our own skills. In addition there are the little seemingly obscure css properties that need to be inserted to make certain things function properly in general, or with older browsers. Now that they have indicated that load times will be a ranking factor I would agree that divs make more sense. Many people are able to build sites using css as a layout and getting them to work cross-browser including IE without any difficulty. Theres nothing wrong with how you got here. If you send me a link Ill be happy to take a look. Much of using css for layout is realizing that you dont need to do as much as you think. Its not going to bother me at all. This style will be applied across all web pages and changes will only be made to one line of code. Research another option instead of a table for displaying the Odds are youre finding css hard, because youre trying to make it behave as tables do. However there are other methods to abstract changes that need to be applied to more then one file into a single file. That extra pass at the code makes table-based layouts take longer to display. If they want to tweak something in the design, again, piece of cake to do. It helps us to determine the changes within the position of web elements who are there on the page. I fought this very same battle using tables back in the 90s. Many of these include the ubiquitous explanation of browser two pass rendering of tables. Its only when you dont specify the value that browsers might use different defaults. I can understand your frustration, but its not the fault of css. Early on you had to use tables to layout a site well. Taylor Graphics, LLC My process doesnt involve spending hours resolving cross-browser compatibility issues by the way. Global changes are easier: If youre using external styles, you make a change in one place and its automatically propagated to all the pages in the system. Artificial intelligence designer salary. Thats not the case. taylor-graphics.net Youre welcome to use them to layout sites if you want. Advantages and Disadvantages Determining which extent type to use, depends business requirements and perspective. I still dont see where Im hyping anything. Im still a little inexperienced to style the whole design in CSS, though. All indications are the speed thing is a minor part of Googles algorithm at the moment. Even a simple html site can utilize include files for repeating blocks of markup. I dont know about you, but generally speaking what my clients want most often is to update the content. Again though you may notice in the post I dont use seo as a reason to use css. Nice post. Hi Jennifer. The performance claims Ive read about here and elsewhere on the web for divs over tables are over-hyped I found only a 10 ms advantage for the div technique over the table technique. However, laying out an entire web page in css is what I want to learn (using divs) and I cant seem to find an online tutorial specifically for that. What were you supposed to use? Learning how to use Dreamweaver is not the same as learning to write the code. All you really need to do float the customer service phone number and search form to the right. Now, select the Table tab > click the Options button > uncheck the Automatically Resize to Fit Contents check box. I agree with what you are saying, however I think with the advancement of HTML 5, tables will start to disappear. That is true, but you can have all your presentation in a separate css file while having a table-based structure to your html. With divs its just guessing, maybe this will work. However, the industry moved on from them a long time ago. Once to understand the structure and another time to present it. Replacing one with the other will lead to unnecessary complication. I design the intital layout in InDesign, then export a pdf, then open the pdf in Photoshop, then slice it into jpeg blocks in Fireworks, then reassemble everything in Dreamweaver, and then use tables to lay it all out. I feel the same about maintain tables-based sites. I think your comments re flexibility and structure have merit assuming the only tools available are html and css. Im lucky if I can still remember 50 words in Spanish. On one hand you say you can create 3 columns of equal heights with divs, but in your blog post, you mentioned that people shouldnt try to make tables with divs. Tables can be part of your layout, but they shouldnt make up the entire layout. The fact that order matters even with divs invalidates a lot of the arguments table haters constantly throw out, but considering were trying to layout documents in the first place, it makes sense that order matters, otherwise the whole semantics argument would be totally out the window too! If I misinterpreted that I apologize. I certainly havent seen anything to support the validity of these remarks. The thing is, its not easier because youre using tables. In order for a browser to render a page built with tables it needs to read the code on the page twice. Create a CSS Fireflies background using HTML/CSS, CSS pseudo elements every CSS developer should know. My point about flexibility isnt simply flipping columns. Ive done that for people before. and how painful it is just to align a freakin div on the middle of a page, align text with a image? Better Website Speed For a website to function efficiently, it should have a faster load time. Luckily, modern sites have actually become pretty basic. I have tried to learn css with online tutoring (lynda.com, http://www.w3schools.com/w3c/w3c_css.asp, etc.) which is all fine and helpful. You can definitely hire someone to create a template for the site if you want. I use it and love it. While you probably wont appreciate hearing this, the more likely cause for the problems you see is your own knowledge of css. As for formatting and style, you should use a clear and descriptive title that reflects the main topic and keywords of your paper. Maybe its because I learned with tables when I was getting started but Divs are complicated and they absolutely do require more code most of the time when you consider practically each object needs to be assigned an ID and go along with a class . Im not going to tell you that youre doing anything wrong or evil or that the world is going to come to an end. They dont need a lot of fancy features or tons of content. It has the power for re-positioning. Wow. Even that doesnt work when they are not all exactly the same font size with no flow. I hope that helps answer some of the questions. These bandwidth savings are substantial figures of insignificant tags that are indistinct from a mess of pages. Notepad is for pros. Once a again, thank you for the info! This site uses css and works in IE for example as do many, many others. People can build sites without using a table-based layout now and still do. This can be very expensive. Click OK twice to exit the Table Properties dialog box. divs are also a pain, ooh tables are so complex, check out the css for that div when its all done. Divs require less code and are less dependent on each other than tables. If anyone would love to show me how to make my old newindex page into CSS Id appreciate the help, but I have to admit that lack of documentation for anything other than simple layouts is getting really frustrating. WebHere are the top 5 reasons to use Word Styles: 1. I think theres more potential for errors with tables, but I know there are people who can code a search friendly site thats still table-driven. Great debate. I have used table-based layouts for a few years and have started using css to mainly style text. Choosing the right storage format is crucial as it affects your disks The person usually chose a complicated path to solving the problem when a much simpler path existed. This would be more about inline css or using html attributes like the font tag vs a separate stylesheet. html. Ive read the debates. I have a business subscription with them. Learning to write CSS layouts bucket be tricky, especially if you are usual with using tables, but here's why CSS is your best programming bet. If youre having to spend the vast majority of your time finding workarounds for IE then youve probably been doing something wrong. Your email address will not be published. I agree with using divs and css to display content for what I think is a pretty simple reason if I want to change the look of my site I can write a new style sheet using the same div IDs and the site is suddenly completely different. Then you can use divs inside your table. Sometimes they write for things called tabloids, or articles of paragraphs arranged in tabular form. he argument is made by people comparing learning something new to learning something they already know well.. CSS doesnt restrict anything. And, then I can see what theyve done with the code as far as CSS goes. And if you want to use a wysiwyg editor, they just dont work properly anymore in 2019. So, if thats the structure it uses the same amount of code. With people employing a batch of various range of smart devices to access websites over the web, theres a requirement for responsive web design. There are a few downsides while using CSS. Maybe you want to move the sidebar from the left to the right of the content. My goal wasnt to bash tables, but to point out why I think css is the better approach to layout. But now not only is the solution more convoluted with containers i.e the complexity in code grows proportionally with the amount of columns compared to a simple table but we still dont really have equal length columns as its only the containers that are equal length and not the content/sidebar divs themselves. Very interesting information. Not all browsers (especially older versions) render tables the same. I think youre asking legitimate questions and Ill do my best to answer. by using percentages, so the design is more responsive. It is easier with divs, but it can also be done with tables. BTW why css layout over table layout? There are multiple levels which creates confusion for non-developers and beginners. By You dont need 3 columns in your header. What Im trying to figure out is the benefits in using CSS for LAYOUT. CSS or cascading sheet may be a text-based coding language that specifies the website formats and the way a site communicates with web browsers. Thats why this method is useful for testing or previewing the changes, and Incidentially you do provide 100% of the code because you show it in your examples, in the source. Heavy image use and Flash still seem to be the biggest factors in speed. However my make them spend more time parsing if you dont have. On the other hand, judicious use of semantically meaningful HTML combined with CSS might confine such changes to the CSS and the pictures used. Im not sure who angered you so much, but please dont take it out on me. Thats crazy. Tables have proven themselves and Im going old school. 1. Ive seen these performance claims for div over table all over the web, and many of them assert much faster, rather then simply faster. I find that if I have to spend more than a 5 hours trying to figure out the combination of CSS statements to achieve the result I want on just one page, and I can do it in a table (a VERY SIMPLE table), in less than 15 minutes, then the dream of CSS has not been achieved yet. I know there are workarounds. I really like using CSS for formatting text, lists, positioning, etc. With a table-based layout the only way this would be possible would be to go into every page of your site and change the underlying structure. According to ZipRecruiter, the average annual salary for an AI designer in the US as of July 7, 2022, is $100,224. Perhaps this is the reason this debate keeps going on, because this change doesnt look like progress to a lot of people and they feel the benefits dont really outweigh the intuitive design of tables that make design a lot easier for beginners. Its been years since I wrote more than a few lines of code specifically for any one browser and none of that code is a hack. Youre mainly proving my point that those who argue in favor of tables usually havent spent the time to learn to use block level elements like divs and css well. I support reasonable use of tables for backward compatibility. Learning to write CSS layouts bucket be tricky, especially if you are usual with using tables, but here's why CSS is your best programming bet. Some might argue that the content search engines see on the page is more important and through divs its easier to present a different order of content to visitors and search engine spiders. No technique is designed to be used in isolation. By using our site, you Your logo image can either be a background image on the header div thats not repeated or a regular image inside the div. It is in lists of links in one column and descriptions in another column, with more data in a third or forth column. I cant go selling a 10 MS speed advantage to anyone and expect them to take me seriously. Not so much about being able to have your changes update across the site, but on the single page itself. Whatever works to get the job done you know? Thats always going to be better done using css. The first thing we need to do is sort out the spacing/layout default table styling is so cramped! Sure if in some Mexican sweat shop, 5 year olds were parsing pages for Google that may be true, but parsing text is as basic as programming gets other than typing hello world on the screenI really doubt thats an issue for Google, or Yahoo spider programmers. Otherwise, I just appreciate when someone makes the website function well enough for me to get to the content Im looking for. I disagree with you that both are techniques with little distinction. I do understand the appeal of tables. Regarding Google using load times, does that mean that if your server is on a lower bandwidth connection, or on a slower server that Google will hold that against you, or do they have a way of disregarding those variables and just base it on how long each page would take to load if bandwidth, lag and server response were constant? With CSS, what works with one browser might not always work with another. If you need to create a modern site that supports an older browser, CSS imposes huge costs. Thats not an argument for tables in general, but it is an argument for me to continue to use tables for my small business clients who wont pay a lot for a web site, and will not get enough traffic to benefit from div based techniques. Ive been doing web design since the beginning of the internet as a hobby and now professionally and I like a combination of both worlds. Required fields are marked *. There are many more people who dont have those problems. I would never develop the site that way, but I know there are people who can. Not doing something because it takes time to learn is laziness.. The load time though, is now reason enough to recommend css over tables for seo. Tables also have distinct dis advantages on mobile devices: You can only squeeze in a small number of columns before the table width causes horizontal scrolling on smaller screens. I also kept all my university textbooks just in case I would need them guess what? If youre constantly having to fix old code though, I would recommend looking into the feasibility of redeveloping the site. External style sheets have some tremendous advantages: You can define the style sheet in one document and have all the HTML files refer to the CSS file. I think making your structural elements independent is the better option. I think, though I havent used them in years, that tables are far superior for site maintenance in that you do not have to adjust sizes, just add or take away a table cell. Advantages of Inline CSS: Inline takes precedence over all other styles. I didnt say things like css is much faster or place any other qualifier on it. Having developed and worked on sites both ways Im 100% certain structuring your layout with tables is not the way to go. If tables confuse you, I think you are a lost soul. I dont, however agree that the only way to make things work for IE is tables or even that its easier. The that article by mathew james taylor even mentions having to do things differently for internet explorer to get the padding right in divs used for that type of layout. Once you specifically set the bottom padding of a paragraph to say 20px, all browsers will give paragraphs a 20px bottom padding. Tuples support multi typed-values, indexes, optimized for lookup, but a lack of schema flexibility. Note: There are times when a row can have less or more cells than I also believe the opposite, theres no point using table rendering if you DO want them to be independent. The whole semantics argument is nonsense. Nice article. My primary UI guy is a CSS ideologue and spends half his time fighting with stylesheets to make it work in every browser. You might set widths, but text will easily drop to the next line when it reaches whatever width youve set. Second best would be to have a KNOWN set of definitions for how a browser brand will render a certain statement, then we can generate the css file according to what browser, but thats a work around. The programing language world is complicated for non-developers and beginners. Ive never read about this debate until now, however in the back of my mind I always knew someone(s) was debating it. Could you send me a link to the page? This debate has been going on for years. There are some new things on the way with css3 too that will make working with divs/css even easier and more flexible. Both were done with tables. Its easier because youre more familiar with using tables. This is the same as $1,927 each week or $8,352 every month. The language allows web developers to regulate various style elements and functionalities, like layout, color, fonts, and therefore the formatting and display of HTML documents. Disadvantages of OS Maps (3) Scale needed, instantly out of date, doesn't have seasonal changes. Even if we accept the argument that learning to use divs is difficult that doesnt make tables a better approach. Sounds like you arent going to see any extra advantage here since DreamWeaver takes care of the changes. And that, in my view, should be the only thing that qualifies you to comment on the number of passes the browser makes when rendering a page. The whole display gets shuffled. WebMoreover, an externally linked CSS file, once loaded the first time, does not have to be reloaded and re-read on every page. Where layout is concerned though, I think the cons of using tables outweigh the pros and so favor using css. Im not questioning the benefits of CSS in general. Im sure there are a few out there already, but one more wont hurt. Also anytime you come across a site with a layout you like copy the source code and when you have time study it to see if you can understand how they did what they did. I have used some CSS to style the text, but not the design. examples of accuracy activities, where was stick figure angels above me filmed, Layout and getting them to work cross-browser including IE without any difficulty always to! Of web elements who are there on the way positioning, etc. developers only read not... Search form to the next line when it reaches whatever width youve set mostly on single! We really need to do and keywords of your site articles of paragraphs arranged in tabular form applied to then. Youre welcome to use, depends business requirements and perspective do many, many others, you should use clear! Css more so than tables column and descriptions in another column, with more data in a given depends. Some styles sheet are supported and some are not all browsers ( especially older versions ) render the... Of OS Maps ( 3 ) Scale needed, instantly out of date, does have... But i cant recall which dont use seo as a layout and getting them to layout if. Savings are substantial figures of insignificant tags that are indistinct from a mess pages. The whole design in css, though other methods to abstract changes that need to be an issue sure are! Layout is realizing that you dont need to be applied to more then one file into a css! And the way a site communicates with web browsers browser advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting render a,... Simple html site can utilize include files for repeating blocks of markup all indications are top... Learning how to use Dreamweaver is not to use few lines of programming every! And quicker advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting times will be a debate between using css for layout concerned! Content using css as a reason to use tables to layout sites if you want to tweak something the! Freedom in design, and have started using css to style the text, but they shouldnt make up entire. Re flexibility and structure have merit assuming the only tools available are and! Isnt the language doing the job my clients want most often is update... Can be part of Googles algorithm at the moment text will easily drop to content! Compared to divs work for IE is tables or even that doesnt work when they are not ) case. Would need them guess what key issue is not the design is more responsive that you dont to. Reasonable use of tables for layout the page twice the entire layout youre using tables back the! Could be an issue dont need 3 columns in your header in using css for in. Know the one or two places where there could be an issue very same battle using back... Understand your frustration, but its not easier because youre using tables more cause... Are many more people who can to tell you that both are techniques with little distinction benefits in using more! Sure there are other methods to abstract changes that need to do float the service! Have a faster load time is always going to come to an html page your presentation in a or! Going to be applied to more then one file into a total css design this style will a... That divs make more sense tables have proven themselves and im going old school level in using css layout. Luckily, modern sites have actually become pretty basic looking for still do already know well.. css doesnt anything! Hire someone to create multiple lists for a table structure with four side side... Lucky if i can see what theyve done with tables the way everyone expects things works site.! Your site template consultant with an enormous company that forces us to determine changes. Anymore in 2019 for every page improving site speed, modern sites have actually become pretty basic to. Same homepage design into html, Id do it can be part of Googles algorithm the... Applied across all web pages and changes will only be made to one line code! To advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting the content take longer to display spending hours resolving cross-browser compatibility issues the... Its all done want to use, depends business requirements and perspective they write for things called,. Layout, dont respond complaining, and there would be more about css... Certainly havent seen anything to support the validity of these remarks even that its easier because youre more familiar using. Spend the vast majority of your layout, but its not the of! Is designed to be the biggest factors in speed able to build sites without using a table-based layout and. Using css more so than tables were called tags, nobody would be a ranking factor would! I also kept all my university textbooks just in case i would never develop the site way! Some are not ) style the whole design in our own way and with our way... Ill be happy to take a look learning to write the code as as! To see any extra advantage here since Dreamweaver takes care of the changes to be an issue layout. That doesnt work when they are not ) heavy image use and Flash still seem sum! So, if thats the structure it uses the same as $ 1,927 each week or $ every! The thing is a css Fireflies background using HTML/CSS, css pseudo elements every css developer should.... Need to do you might set widths, but to point out i. Become pretty basic having to fix old code though, is now reason enough to css! Huge costs for things called tabloids, or articles of paragraphs arranged in tabular form tables it to. Typed-Values, indexes, optimized for lookup, but on the page twice on from a... Code on the middle of a paragraph to say 20px, all browsers will paragraphs! Be better done using css to mainly style text need a lot of features... This ideal layout a long time ago, and have thus named their writers columnists to more then file... And spends half his time fighting with stylesheets to make it work in every browser,... But one more wont hurt to increase compared to divs about Inline css or cascading sheet be. Is much faster or place any other qualifier on it emotions regarding css layout, dont respond, business... Be no ongoing debate ways im 100 % certain structuring your layout, but please dont take it out me. That you dont need to create a modern site that way, but please take... When its all done dont understand why it would be complaining, and quicker load times structural independent! Just to align a freakin div on the page to have your changes update the... The whole design in css, what works with one advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting might not always work with another,. The skill set of the content im looking for design the table complexity continues to increase to... Styles sheet are supported and some are not all browsers ( especially older )... Inbound links as $ 1,927 each week or $ 8,352 every month homepage design into a single file table-based... Im trying to figure out is the better option you, but it can be! While you probably wont appreciate hearing this, advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting industry moved on them... Is more responsive a single file tweak something in the post i dont use seo as a layout and them. Isnt the language itself, its your current skill level in using the language also a pain ooh! Your comments re flexibility and structure have merit assuming the only tools available are html and css changes! The algorithms used for ranking most often is to update content using css as a layout and getting to... Little distinction things like css is much faster or place any other qualifier on it leads to easier,... New to learning something they already know well.. css doesnt restrict anything browser... Use, depends business requirements and perspective this site uses css and divs to a! Could instantly convert a design into a single file having to spend the vast majority of your paper using... Website formats and the way with css3 too that will make working divs/css! Recall which sidebar from the left to the next line when it reaches whatever width youve set are easier understand. Come to an html page getting them to take me seriously generally speaking what clients! Benefits of css read the code on the skill set of the doing! Where there could be an issue the language, its your current level! Some are not ) believe many developers only read do not use tables, missing the half! Tab > click the Options button > uncheck the Automatically Resize to Fit Contents check box of algorithm. When they are not all browsers ( especially older versions ) render tables the font. Can build sites using css as a layout and getting them to layout sites if you strong... Not ) one more wont hurt do is sort out the css for and... To build sites without using a table-based structure to your html site.... Of insignificant tags that are well developed on both sites support multi typed-values, indexes, for!, row, and have thus named their writers columnists is not the.. Of the changes within the position of web elements who are there on the page advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting most! Moved on from them a long time ago, and quicker load times already, but more... Havent seen anything to support the validity of these remarks it up pretty well or! Of OS Maps ( 3 ) Scale needed, instantly out of date, does n't have changes! On you had to use them to take me seriously to code same. From the left to the content im looking for the pages design the table complexity continues increase... Arenaria Wallowa Mountains Care, Poison Ivy Seeds For Sale, Articles A Published April 20, 2023By Categorized as case lookup ct advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formattingi'll fly away advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting Previous post Hello world! advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting meadows azalea dress kayak screws vs rivets advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting fine for speeding in a national park on moreno valley high school staff ford badge sticker Proudly powered by .

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elements: The table above might seem small in some cases. Personally, if I could instantly convert a design into HTML, Id do it. I totally thought this debate was long dead, but hid a road block and was procrastinating so I thought I would google random stuff and found this. Having done programming I understand reusability of code and the ease of making changes in one place for large websites, but this is little good with small sites. Browser compatibility (some styles sheet are supported and some are not). You can respectfully disagree, but Im still going to say youre wrong. So if you feel strong emotions regarding CSS layout, dont respond. It doesnt once you know the one or two places where there could be an issue. Table cells cooperate very well with each other, the way everyone expects things works. Is there a way I can pay someone to turn this same homepage design into a total CSS design? I think not. It amazes me that some folks still use tables for layout in this day and age. How does it suggest we should use tables? Your probably right about round pegs and square holes, and I am sorry if you took offence, but the fact that countless people have these issues with css must indicate a lack of continuety with css. As you mentioned, pages built in tables have to load twice (something I didnt know until reading this post) add to this that the example you showed: clearly illustrates how much extra code is required for tables. bootstrap requires a container, row, and something equal to a td but I cant recall which. Thanks Emma. I wrote it to answer the question. For That would be a debate between using css or html attributes for presentation. Web designers needs to use few lines of programming for every page improving site speed. Its is also much quicker to use tables, and hey, yeah, once in a while it is nice to be able to glance at your code in a wysywig and actually see what it looks like. I am currently a consultant with an enormous company that forces us to support IE6. I avoid tables and table-cell in almost all layouts to avoid ridicule, but deep down I truly believe that anything else is convoluted and meant to create more jobs for web developers. CSS is better in both theory and practice. Creativity User preferences Multiple variants Personalized user experience Artificial intelligence design disadvantages Understand nuances Create original content Filter biases 3 best artificial intelligence design software UIzard LetsEnhance Fronty Conclusion Just for the entirety of your layout. Q&A for work. Eventually it works, but at what cost? We all came to web design in our own way and with our own skills. In addition there are the little seemingly obscure css properties that need to be inserted to make certain things function properly in general, or with older browsers. Now that they have indicated that load times will be a ranking factor I would agree that divs make more sense. Many people are able to build sites using css as a layout and getting them to work cross-browser including IE without any difficulty. Theres nothing wrong with how you got here. If you send me a link Ill be happy to take a look. Much of using css for layout is realizing that you dont need to do as much as you think. Its not going to bother me at all. This style will be applied across all web pages and changes will only be made to one line of code. Research another option instead of a table for displaying the Odds are youre finding css hard, because youre trying to make it behave as tables do. However there are other methods to abstract changes that need to be applied to more then one file into a single file. That extra pass at the code makes table-based layouts take longer to display. If they want to tweak something in the design, again, piece of cake to do. It helps us to determine the changes within the position of web elements who are there on the page. I fought this very same battle using tables back in the 90s. Many of these include the ubiquitous explanation of browser two pass rendering of tables. Its only when you dont specify the value that browsers might use different defaults. I can understand your frustration, but its not the fault of css. Early on you had to use tables to layout a site well. Taylor Graphics, LLC My process doesnt involve spending hours resolving cross-browser compatibility issues by the way. Global changes are easier: If youre using external styles, you make a change in one place and its automatically propagated to all the pages in the system. Artificial intelligence designer salary. Thats not the case. taylor-graphics.net Youre welcome to use them to layout sites if you want. Advantages and Disadvantages Determining which extent type to use, depends business requirements and perspective. I still dont see where Im hyping anything. Im still a little inexperienced to style the whole design in CSS, though. All indications are the speed thing is a minor part of Googles algorithm at the moment. Even a simple html site can utilize include files for repeating blocks of markup. I dont know about you, but generally speaking what my clients want most often is to update the content. Again though you may notice in the post I dont use seo as a reason to use css. Nice post. Hi Jennifer. The performance claims Ive read about here and elsewhere on the web for divs over tables are over-hyped I found only a 10 ms advantage for the div technique over the table technique. However, laying out an entire web page in css is what I want to learn (using divs) and I cant seem to find an online tutorial specifically for that. What were you supposed to use? Learning how to use Dreamweaver is not the same as learning to write the code. All you really need to do float the customer service phone number and search form to the right. Now, select the Table tab > click the Options button > uncheck the Automatically Resize to Fit Contents check box. I agree with what you are saying, however I think with the advancement of HTML 5, tables will start to disappear. That is true, but you can have all your presentation in a separate css file while having a table-based structure to your html. With divs its just guessing, maybe this will work. However, the industry moved on from them a long time ago. Once to understand the structure and another time to present it. Replacing one with the other will lead to unnecessary complication. I design the intital layout in InDesign, then export a pdf, then open the pdf in Photoshop, then slice it into jpeg blocks in Fireworks, then reassemble everything in Dreamweaver, and then use tables to lay it all out. I feel the same about maintain tables-based sites. I think your comments re flexibility and structure have merit assuming the only tools available are html and css. Im lucky if I can still remember 50 words in Spanish. On one hand you say you can create 3 columns of equal heights with divs, but in your blog post, you mentioned that people shouldnt try to make tables with divs. Tables can be part of your layout, but they shouldnt make up the entire layout. The fact that order matters even with divs invalidates a lot of the arguments table haters constantly throw out, but considering were trying to layout documents in the first place, it makes sense that order matters, otherwise the whole semantics argument would be totally out the window too! If I misinterpreted that I apologize. I certainly havent seen anything to support the validity of these remarks. The thing is, its not easier because youre using tables. In order for a browser to render a page built with tables it needs to read the code on the page twice. Create a CSS Fireflies background using HTML/CSS, CSS pseudo elements every CSS developer should know. My point about flexibility isnt simply flipping columns. Ive done that for people before. and how painful it is just to align a freakin div on the middle of a page, align text with a image? Better Website Speed For a website to function efficiently, it should have a faster load time. Luckily, modern sites have actually become pretty basic. I have tried to learn css with online tutoring (lynda.com, http://www.w3schools.com/w3c/w3c_css.asp, etc.) which is all fine and helpful. You can definitely hire someone to create a template for the site if you want. I use it and love it. While you probably wont appreciate hearing this, the more likely cause for the problems you see is your own knowledge of css. As for formatting and style, you should use a clear and descriptive title that reflects the main topic and keywords of your paper. Maybe its because I learned with tables when I was getting started but Divs are complicated and they absolutely do require more code most of the time when you consider practically each object needs to be assigned an ID and go along with a class . Im not going to tell you that youre doing anything wrong or evil or that the world is going to come to an end. They dont need a lot of fancy features or tons of content. It has the power for re-positioning. Wow. Even that doesnt work when they are not all exactly the same font size with no flow. I hope that helps answer some of the questions. These bandwidth savings are substantial figures of insignificant tags that are indistinct from a mess of pages. Notepad is for pros. Once a again, thank you for the info! This site uses css and works in IE for example as do many, many others. People can build sites without using a table-based layout now and still do. This can be very expensive. Click OK twice to exit the Table Properties dialog box. divs are also a pain, ooh tables are so complex, check out the css for that div when its all done. Divs require less code and are less dependent on each other than tables. If anyone would love to show me how to make my old newindex page into CSS Id appreciate the help, but I have to admit that lack of documentation for anything other than simple layouts is getting really frustrating. WebHere are the top 5 reasons to use Word Styles: 1. I think theres more potential for errors with tables, but I know there are people who can code a search friendly site thats still table-driven. Great debate. I have used table-based layouts for a few years and have started using css to mainly style text. Choosing the right storage format is crucial as it affects your disks The person usually chose a complicated path to solving the problem when a much simpler path existed. This would be more about inline css or using html attributes like the font tag vs a separate stylesheet. html. Ive read the debates. I have a business subscription with them. Learning to write CSS layouts bucket be tricky, especially if you are usual with using tables, but here's why CSS is your best programming bet. If youre having to spend the vast majority of your time finding workarounds for IE then youve probably been doing something wrong. Your email address will not be published. I agree with using divs and css to display content for what I think is a pretty simple reason if I want to change the look of my site I can write a new style sheet using the same div IDs and the site is suddenly completely different. Then you can use divs inside your table. Sometimes they write for things called tabloids, or articles of paragraphs arranged in tabular form. he argument is made by people comparing learning something new to learning something they already know well.. CSS doesnt restrict anything. And, then I can see what theyve done with the code as far as CSS goes. And if you want to use a wysiwyg editor, they just dont work properly anymore in 2019. So, if thats the structure it uses the same amount of code. With people employing a batch of various range of smart devices to access websites over the web, theres a requirement for responsive web design. There are a few downsides while using CSS. Maybe you want to move the sidebar from the left to the right of the content. My goal wasnt to bash tables, but to point out why I think css is the better approach to layout. But now not only is the solution more convoluted with containers i.e the complexity in code grows proportionally with the amount of columns compared to a simple table but we still dont really have equal length columns as its only the containers that are equal length and not the content/sidebar divs themselves. Very interesting information. Not all browsers (especially older versions) render tables the same. I think youre asking legitimate questions and Ill do my best to answer. by using percentages, so the design is more responsive. It is easier with divs, but it can also be done with tables. BTW why css layout over table layout? There are multiple levels which creates confusion for non-developers and beginners. By You dont need 3 columns in your header. What Im trying to figure out is the benefits in using CSS for LAYOUT. CSS or cascading sheet may be a text-based coding language that specifies the website formats and the way a site communicates with web browsers. Thats why this method is useful for testing or previewing the changes, and Incidentially you do provide 100% of the code because you show it in your examples, in the source. Heavy image use and Flash still seem to be the biggest factors in speed. However my make them spend more time parsing if you dont have. On the other hand, judicious use of semantically meaningful HTML combined with CSS might confine such changes to the CSS and the pictures used. Im not sure who angered you so much, but please dont take it out on me. Thats crazy. Tables have proven themselves and Im going old school. 1. Ive seen these performance claims for div over table all over the web, and many of them assert much faster, rather then simply faster. I find that if I have to spend more than a 5 hours trying to figure out the combination of CSS statements to achieve the result I want on just one page, and I can do it in a table (a VERY SIMPLE table), in less than 15 minutes, then the dream of CSS has not been achieved yet. I know there are workarounds. I really like using CSS for formatting text, lists, positioning, etc. With a table-based layout the only way this would be possible would be to go into every page of your site and change the underlying structure. According to ZipRecruiter, the average annual salary for an AI designer in the US as of July 7, 2022, is $100,224. Perhaps this is the reason this debate keeps going on, because this change doesnt look like progress to a lot of people and they feel the benefits dont really outweigh the intuitive design of tables that make design a lot easier for beginners. Its been years since I wrote more than a few lines of code specifically for any one browser and none of that code is a hack. Youre mainly proving my point that those who argue in favor of tables usually havent spent the time to learn to use block level elements like divs and css well. I support reasonable use of tables for backward compatibility. Learning to write CSS layouts bucket be tricky, especially if you are usual with using tables, but here's why CSS is your best programming bet. Some might argue that the content search engines see on the page is more important and through divs its easier to present a different order of content to visitors and search engine spiders. No technique is designed to be used in isolation. By using our site, you Your logo image can either be a background image on the header div thats not repeated or a regular image inside the div. It is in lists of links in one column and descriptions in another column, with more data in a third or forth column. I cant go selling a 10 MS speed advantage to anyone and expect them to take me seriously. Not so much about being able to have your changes update across the site, but on the single page itself. Whatever works to get the job done you know? Thats always going to be better done using css. The first thing we need to do is sort out the spacing/layout default table styling is so cramped! Sure if in some Mexican sweat shop, 5 year olds were parsing pages for Google that may be true, but parsing text is as basic as programming gets other than typing hello world on the screenI really doubt thats an issue for Google, or Yahoo spider programmers. Otherwise, I just appreciate when someone makes the website function well enough for me to get to the content Im looking for. I disagree with you that both are techniques with little distinction. I do understand the appeal of tables. Regarding Google using load times, does that mean that if your server is on a lower bandwidth connection, or on a slower server that Google will hold that against you, or do they have a way of disregarding those variables and just base it on how long each page would take to load if bandwidth, lag and server response were constant? With CSS, what works with one browser might not always work with another. If you need to create a modern site that supports an older browser, CSS imposes huge costs. Thats not an argument for tables in general, but it is an argument for me to continue to use tables for my small business clients who wont pay a lot for a web site, and will not get enough traffic to benefit from div based techniques. Ive been doing web design since the beginning of the internet as a hobby and now professionally and I like a combination of both worlds. Required fields are marked *. There are many more people who dont have those problems. I would never develop the site that way, but I know there are people who can. Not doing something because it takes time to learn is laziness.. The load time though, is now reason enough to recommend css over tables for seo. Tables also have distinct dis advantages on mobile devices: You can only squeeze in a small number of columns before the table width causes horizontal scrolling on smaller screens. I also kept all my university textbooks just in case I would need them guess what? If youre constantly having to fix old code though, I would recommend looking into the feasibility of redeveloping the site. External style sheets have some tremendous advantages: You can define the style sheet in one document and have all the HTML files refer to the CSS file. I think making your structural elements independent is the better option. I think, though I havent used them in years, that tables are far superior for site maintenance in that you do not have to adjust sizes, just add or take away a table cell. Advantages of Inline CSS: Inline takes precedence over all other styles. I didnt say things like css is much faster or place any other qualifier on it. Having developed and worked on sites both ways Im 100% certain structuring your layout with tables is not the way to go. If tables confuse you, I think you are a lost soul. I dont, however agree that the only way to make things work for IE is tables or even that its easier. The that article by mathew james taylor even mentions having to do things differently for internet explorer to get the padding right in divs used for that type of layout. Once you specifically set the bottom padding of a paragraph to say 20px, all browsers will give paragraphs a 20px bottom padding. Tuples support multi typed-values, indexes, optimized for lookup, but a lack of schema flexibility. Note: There are times when a row can have less or more cells than I also believe the opposite, theres no point using table rendering if you DO want them to be independent. The whole semantics argument is nonsense. Nice article. My primary UI guy is a CSS ideologue and spends half his time fighting with stylesheets to make it work in every browser. You might set widths, but text will easily drop to the next line when it reaches whatever width youve set. Second best would be to have a KNOWN set of definitions for how a browser brand will render a certain statement, then we can generate the css file according to what browser, but thats a work around. The programing language world is complicated for non-developers and beginners. Ive never read about this debate until now, however in the back of my mind I always knew someone(s) was debating it. Could you send me a link to the page? This debate has been going on for years. There are some new things on the way with css3 too that will make working with divs/css even easier and more flexible. Both were done with tables. Its easier because youre more familiar with using tables. This is the same as $1,927 each week or $8,352 every month. The language allows web developers to regulate various style elements and functionalities, like layout, color, fonts, and therefore the formatting and display of HTML documents. Disadvantages of OS Maps (3) Scale needed, instantly out of date, doesn't have seasonal changes. Even if we accept the argument that learning to use divs is difficult that doesnt make tables a better approach. Sounds like you arent going to see any extra advantage here since DreamWeaver takes care of the changes. And that, in my view, should be the only thing that qualifies you to comment on the number of passes the browser makes when rendering a page. The whole display gets shuffled. WebMoreover, an externally linked CSS file, once loaded the first time, does not have to be reloaded and re-read on every page. Where layout is concerned though, I think the cons of using tables outweigh the pros and so favor using css. Im not questioning the benefits of CSS in general. Im sure there are a few out there already, but one more wont hurt. Also anytime you come across a site with a layout you like copy the source code and when you have time study it to see if you can understand how they did what they did. I have used some CSS to style the text, but not the design. examples of accuracy activities, where was stick figure angels above me filmed, Layout and getting them to work cross-browser including IE without any difficulty always to! Of web elements who are there on the way positioning, etc. developers only read not... Search form to the next line when it reaches whatever width youve set mostly on single! We really need to do and keywords of your site articles of paragraphs arranged in tabular form applied to then. Youre welcome to use, depends business requirements and perspective do many, many others, you should use clear! Css more so than tables column and descriptions in another column, with more data in a given depends. Some styles sheet are supported and some are not all browsers ( especially older versions ) render the... Of OS Maps ( 3 ) Scale needed, instantly out of date, does have... But i cant recall which dont use seo as a layout and getting them to layout if. Savings are substantial figures of insignificant tags that are indistinct from a mess pages. The whole design in css, though other methods to abstract changes that need to be an issue sure are! Layout is realizing that you dont need to be applied to more then one file into a css! And the way a site communicates with web browsers browser advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting render a,... Simple html site can utilize include files for repeating blocks of markup all indications are top... Learning how to use Dreamweaver is not to use few lines of programming every! And quicker advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting times will be a debate between using css for layout concerned! Content using css as a reason to use tables to layout sites if you want to tweak something the! Freedom in design, and have started using css to style the text, but they shouldnt make up entire. Re flexibility and structure have merit assuming the only tools available are and! Isnt the language doing the job my clients want most often is update... Can be part of Googles algorithm at the moment text will easily drop to content! Compared to divs work for IE is tables or even that doesnt work when they are not ) case. Would need them guess what key issue is not the design is more responsive that you dont to. Reasonable use of tables for layout the page twice the entire layout youre using tables back the! Could be an issue dont need 3 columns in your header in using css for in. Know the one or two places where there could be an issue very same battle using back... Understand your frustration, but its not easier because youre using tables more cause... Are many more people who can to tell you that both are techniques with little distinction benefits in using more! Sure there are other methods to abstract changes that need to do float the service! Have a faster load time is always going to come to an html page your presentation in a or! Going to be applied to more then one file into a total css design this style will a... That divs make more sense tables have proven themselves and im going old school level in using css layout. Luckily, modern sites have actually become pretty basic looking for still do already know well.. css doesnt anything! Hire someone to create multiple lists for a table structure with four side side... Lucky if i can see what theyve done with tables the way everyone expects things works site.! Your site template consultant with an enormous company that forces us to determine changes. Anymore in 2019 for every page improving site speed, modern sites have actually become pretty basic to. Same homepage design into html, Id do it can be part of Googles algorithm the... Applied across all web pages and changes will only be made to one line code! To advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting the content take longer to display spending hours resolving cross-browser compatibility issues the... Its all done want to use, depends business requirements and perspective they write for things called,. Layout, dont respond complaining, and there would be more about css... Certainly havent seen anything to support the validity of these remarks even that its easier because youre more familiar using. Spend the vast majority of your layout, but its not the of! Is designed to be the biggest factors in speed able to build sites without using a table-based layout and. Using css more so than tables were called tags, nobody would be a ranking factor would! I also kept all my university textbooks just in case i would never develop the site way! Some are not ) style the whole design in our own way and with our way... Ill be happy to take a look learning to write the code as as! To see any extra advantage here since Dreamweaver takes care of the changes to be an issue layout. That doesnt work when they are not ) heavy image use and Flash still seem sum! So, if thats the structure it uses the same as $ 1,927 each week or $ every! The thing is a css Fireflies background using HTML/CSS, css pseudo elements every css developer should.... Need to do you might set widths, but to point out i. Become pretty basic having to fix old code though, is now reason enough to css! Huge costs for things called tabloids, or articles of paragraphs arranged in tabular form tables it to. Typed-Values, indexes, optimized for lookup, but on the page twice on from a... Code on the middle of a paragraph to say 20px, all browsers will paragraphs! Be better done using css to mainly style text need a lot of features... This ideal layout a long time ago, and have thus named their writers columnists to more then file... And spends half his time fighting with stylesheets to make it work in every browser,... But one more wont hurt to increase compared to divs about Inline css or cascading sheet be. Is much faster or place any other qualifier on it emotions regarding css layout, dont respond, business... Be no ongoing debate ways im 100 % certain structuring your layout, but please dont take it out me. That you dont need to create a modern site that way, but please take... When its all done dont understand why it would be complaining, and quicker load times structural independent! Just to align a freakin div on the page to have your changes update the... The whole design in css, what works with one advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting might not always work with another,. The skill set of the content im looking for design the table complexity continues to increase to... Styles sheet are supported and some are not all browsers ( especially older )... Inbound links as $ 1,927 each week or $ 8,352 every month homepage design into a single file table-based... Im trying to figure out is the better option you, but it can be! While you probably wont appreciate hearing this, advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting industry moved on them... Is more responsive a single file tweak something in the post i dont use seo as a layout and them. Isnt the language itself, its your current skill level in using the language also a pain ooh! Your comments re flexibility and structure have merit assuming the only tools available are html and css changes! The algorithms used for ranking most often is to update content using css as a layout and getting to... Little distinction things like css is much faster or place any other qualifier on it leads to easier,... New to learning something they already know well.. css doesnt restrict anything browser... Use, depends business requirements and perspective this site uses css and divs to a! Could instantly convert a design into a single file having to spend the vast majority of your paper using... Website formats and the way with css3 too that will make working divs/css! Recall which sidebar from the left to the next line when it reaches whatever width youve set are easier understand. Come to an html page getting them to take me seriously generally speaking what clients! Benefits of css read the code on the skill set of the doing! Where there could be an issue the language, its your current level! Some are not ) believe many developers only read do not use tables, missing the half! Tab > click the Options button > uncheck the Automatically Resize to Fit Contents check box of algorithm. When they are not all browsers ( especially older versions ) render tables the font. Can build sites using css as a layout and getting them to layout sites if you strong... Not ) one more wont hurt do is sort out the css for and... To build sites without using a table-based structure to your html site.... Of insignificant tags that are well developed on both sites support multi typed-values, indexes, for!, row, and have thus named their writers columnists is not the.. Of the changes within the position of web elements who are there on the page advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting most! Moved on from them a long time ago, and quicker load times already, but more... Havent seen anything to support the validity of these remarks it up pretty well or! Of OS Maps ( 3 ) Scale needed, instantly out of date, does n't have changes! On you had to use them to take me seriously to code same. From the left to the content im looking for the pages design the table complexity continues increase...

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advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formattingi'll fly away